Comments on Woman Submit! Christians & Domestic Violence: Saddleback Church, Abuse and Divorce

I agree and I'm glad that all of you have written ...

2009-10-15T14:04:39.094-07:00

I agree and I'm glad that all of you have written this.
You go girl!

Reading this article brought nightmarish memories ...

2009-09-30T18:31:18.995-07:00

Reading this article brought nightmarish memories to mind of a pastor, who we'll call Jerry, who is supporting my abusive ex-husband.

I made a police report because my husband smacked a phone out of my hand after spending most of the evening verbally abusing me and my children; yelling over them in their beds, telling them their mother is a whore and a prostitute.

Jerry was almost yelling when he said a smack on the hand is not a reason to call the police. I asked him if he believed I shouldn't report an assault. Jerry, using his voice of ultimate authority, told me a smack on the hand is not assault. Fortunately,in the state of North Carolina, it is.

Thinking about this still makes me sick to my stomach after 2 years. I have been church hopping ever since and have been discouraged and saddened to discover that what you write here is... *sigh*.... one of the most overwhelming issues I currently face.

After abuse, the church should be the first in line to help, but they end being the first in line to abuse scripture and shove the victim back into an oppressive black hole.

I would like to start a grassroots movement to educate pastors in my area. I've developed an outline but my fear is that none will listen... to a woman. Do you have any advice??

I came to your site because I was looking for dome...

2009-02-22T10:37:00.000-08:00

I came to your site because I was looking for domestic violence and Christians. I grew up in an extremely abusive home - guns, knives, hitting, biting, breaking things, slapping hitting children, beating and more...but our parents were active in the church and gave money. My dad was pharmacist. My mom was the one who abusive to him and she went around talking about how abusive he was. My brother was big enough to finally hit back and they had him committed to a state hospital. It's all complicated. But today - I have no family support. They expect reality to bend to them. I've had an incredible life of faith that's gotten me to where I am - but I've had an incredible amount of heartbreak from the church expecting me to honor my parents and take my children home for holidays and embrace them when they are dangerous people. I started a blog - finally - but it had to be under psuedonym's in order to be public or I couldn't do it at all. I've thought about this for years - but I don't know if I'll ever be free from them. It amazes me that the church goes CRAZY over abortion and even miscarriages for people offering support for years - but they think domestic violence is a figment of our imaginations. My mother tried to strangle me when I was 17. I moved out a few weeks later. I tried for years to have a relationship with them. No one is ever coming to see my children. Never. Not uncles, not brothers, not my sister, not grandparents, not cousins. No one. I LOVE GOD, Jesus was cool. I've really gotta get outta church. My story is SO long and really speaks to God's awesome power - and about really awesome people...but I just finally found the strength to write...

Doesn't Rick Warren know that shoving a woman can ...

2009-01-25T18:30:00.000-08:00

Doesn't Rick Warren know that shoving a woman can kill her?? All it takes is for her to trip, lose her balance, fall against something, hitting her head in just the wrong place, and presto, she's dead. The men whose wives are dead from a shove tell the police (and the woman's parents and her children) "I just pushed her a little. I barely touched her, and she fell and hit her head." And then later they'll change it to "I didn't touch her at all. She tripped and fell and hit her head." But all his minimizing what he did will not bring her back to life again.

And even if that shove doesn't kill her, what about the disrespect it models for the children? And doesn't he know that the disrespect toward his wife in his own heart when he shoves her, increases with every shove, with every nasty, controlling behavior?

You are right to call them on this, Jocelyn!

And where is Saddleback's biblical reasoning for this? As Bob Deffinbaugh says in his sermon on the husband's part in Ephesians 5, http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=2450 "I would have expected Paul to reason in this way: Husbands are to manifest the headship of Jesus Christ over His church, and thus they are to be the spiritual leaders of their wives. If the wives are commanded to submit, then the husbands surely must be instructed to lead. But they are not. Instead of commanding husbands to lead their wives, Paul instructs them to love their wives."

But abusive husbands are neither "leading" nor loving. Instead they are taking "authority over," which is something Jesus commanded the disciples NOT to do. That is what Gentiles do, not Jesus' followers.

So when is Saddleback going to start dealing with the sin of husbands RULING OVER their wives? Did you notice Ephesians 5 does NOT say, Hubands rule your wives? Yet, Saddleback acts as if that IS what Ephesians 5 and other scripture passages say. But NONE of them say that. They say the opposite. Colossians 3:19 says "Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them." Isn't shoving being harsh? And regular beatings? I'd say those are super, super harsh. How harsh does a husband get to be before Saddleback will call it sin and step in to protect the woman and her children???

I hope God's Spirit will work mightily in Rick Warren, the leaders at Saddleback, and leaders everywhere who Satan has bound with this destructive doctrine. Think of the Christ-like growth men have been denied by their constant claim of authority rights. And the many women and children who have been damaged for life because of that doctrine. Some have physical injuries that they will have to endure, and that will continue to cause more debilitation until the day they die. Others have emotional, mental, and spiritual injuries that will negatively effect every relationship they will have for the rest of their lives. When will this butchering, this murdering of the spirits of women and children end!!!

~Waneta Dawn, author of "Behind the Hedge, A novel" which Jocelyn has a picture of and link to on the right side of this blog.

lol I don't doubt that! I have already started wr...

2009-01-20T17:05:00.000-08:00

lol I don't doubt that! I have already started writing it down word for word!

How irresponsible can one organization GET! YESH!

Clarification: The Saddleback audio on abuse is ma...

2009-01-19T08:30:00.000-08:00

Clarification:

The Saddleback audio on abuse is malfunctioning (I suspect deliberately). But you can listen to the comments about being "beaten regularly" on the audio entitled, "what do I do when I am miserable in my marriage?"

Better hurry before that one malfunctions!

I pray I haven't misquoted! The video clip is curr...

2009-01-19T08:18:00.000-08:00

I pray I haven't misquoted! The video clip is currently not working properly on the Saddleback site. Does anyone have a link that works? If so, please send it to me.

Here is another quote about the "regular beatings" in the Associated Baptist Press http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3763&Itemid=53 . Several others have also picked up on it.

Some have attributed the "regular beatings" part to Rick Warren himself, but that is due to the original confusion over who was speaking in the audio.

On the one hand, he said that women were not requi...

2009-01-17T16:36:00.000-08:00

On the one hand, he said that women were not required to submit to abuse, while on the other he defined abuse as being beaten regularly.

Did they change the response? What I mean is did they delete that part, or is it on a separate response? The beat regularly part seems to be removed.